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Sunday, October 24, 2010

Dinosaurs In The Bible

I really enjoyed this one. I hope you do, too. It's a lot of reading, but it's actually pretty damn important. I mean, as a Catholic school snob, who grew up thinking my religion was number one, I am shocked and appalled. To think that I was indoctrinated with this stuff. It's scary, people. This is cult-ish, and as a former employee and true crusader for the Roman Catholic church, I must say, frankly, these people scare the hell out of me!

Remember the Scopes trial we discussed, where the Bible-beaters argued against evolution and the existence of dinosaurs? Yeah, see that's a relatively new obstacle for the church. It wasn't until the 17th century that the first dinosaur bone was found and people started learning through "science", (which ironically spawned from metaphysics, the study of God), and it wasn't a problem for them until the 19th century, when Darwin came around. They went with the 'no dinosaur' thing for about fifty years until that book, Inherit The Wind and society's dull-witted common sense caught up with that melarky.

So, they have changed their stance. Are you ready for this? While studying a question Mom had about the bible's mention of suspended planets, I came upon a few Christian websites, in regard to the matter. I wish I could say, "Boy, this Internet is terrible....." Only, this is the exact crap that was fed to me and my mother and her mother and our whole neighborhood and at one point, all of New York and all of Europe. (while the other version had the whole Middle-East in a choke hold.) 

OK, this is the Christians serious response to the Dinosaur thing: They are smugly claiming that, if we only look, the Bible does, in fact, mention Dinosaurs, so there.....(Well, not exactly.)  These self-righteous snobs are going to tell us, and more importantly, a generation of young children, that Dinosaurs lived 4,300 years ago, DESPITE consensus from the scientific community that they are off by about 64,995,700 years (and we wonder why scientists and other people with a brain are atheists).
Just so you don't miss any of the pretension or the ignorance or the demonic cultivation, I'll be right with you the whole way in my signature, sarcastic Plume purple. Btw, I shouldn't have to tell you this, but I did NOT make this up. This stuff is all over sites like or This is exactly how it's written, minus the purple.

 So, Kids

Were Dinosaurs on Noah’s Ark?

Were Dinosaurs Even Around Then?

The story we have all heard from movies, television, newspapers, and most magazines and textbooks is that dinosaurs “ruled the Earth” for 140 million years, died out 65 million years ago, and therefore weren’t around when Noah and company set sail on the Ark around 4,300 years ago.

Yes, that wacky "story" that Hollywood puts out....and textbooks. The one that's been verified using radiocarbon dating. That one. Notice the use of parenthesis to denote sarcasm. We also see that in the Plume writings. As a Sarcastic Monk, I HAVE to give them points for that. Let's continue:

However, the Bible gives a completely different view of Earth (and therefore, dinosaur) history. As God’s written Word to us, we can trust it to tell the truth about the past. 

Excuse me? Wait a minute.
So, you're telling me that I can trust it because it's God's written Word and not just god's written word. OK. Sounds good to me. Do you have a link where I could see just how reliable the Bible is? 
(For more information about the reliability of Scripture, see Get Answers: Bible.) Oh, thank you. 

Although the Bible does not tell us exactly how long ago it was that God made the world and its creatures, we can make a good estimate of the age of the universe by carefully studying the whole counsel of Scripture, instead of wasting time with that carbon dating and the other scientific methods we've spent billions developing.
God made everything in six days, and rested on the seventh. (By the way, this is the basis for our seven day weekExodus 20:8–11 <<remind me to get back to that). Leading Hebrew scholars indicate that, based on the grammatical structure of Genesis 1, these “days” were of normal length, and did not represent long periods of time. and of course, don't bother to google that. We have the link right here>> (see Get Answers: Genesis).
    Now, that's a coincidence. I was just mentioning the other day how a book that I read, in Catholic school, blew that out of the water. You might want to put Inherit The Wind on the ban list (IF you did that stuff) because, as Scope's lawyer pointed out, the heavenly bodies weren't created until day four. If a "day" consists of full rotation of the Earth as it revolves around the Sun, how the Hell did the LEADING HEBREW SCHOLARS (also known as Pharisees, a major political party of time.) measure days 1,2, and 3??
      BTW, that Exodus passage is hands down the BEST VERSE IN THE WHOLE BIBLE. God does NOT want us to do shit on Sunday. Would you Bible freaks get on top of THAT one!! Jesus Christ, I mean, I'll give you the dinosaur thing, fine, they were here with man.(chuckle) Let's move on to that sabbath thing; you heard it right from the man. Day one. That was his first order of business. How the Hell did we jump all the way to tattoos and gays?

      We are told God created the first man and woman—Adam and Eve—on Day 6, along with the land animals (which would have included dinosaurs). 

      Hahaha. Wow. Ok, we seem to have a small disagreement here between EVERY reputable scientist who could keep a straight face and the LEADING HEBREW SCHOLARS (nice word). Now, they're only off by 65 million years! 

      Those same non-hysterically laughing scientists agree that dinosaurs were far too massive to have inhabited the exact same territory as civilized humans. And IF it were true, which it certainly isn't, they would probably be mentioned a little more often, being that some were the size of three elephants.

      (When asked if they thought this was a comical attempt to save face that is making these people look ridiculous, the remaining scientists lost it and cracked up in my face.) 

      The Bible records the genealogies from Adam to Christ. From the ages given in these lists, (which pinpointed the average life expectancy at about 600 years old, give or take a few hundred) and accepting that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came to Earth around 2,000 years ago, we can conclude that the universe is only a few thousand years old (perhaps just 6,000), and not millions of years old (see also Did Jesus Say He Created in Six Literal Days?). Thus, dinosaurs lived within the past few thousand years. 
      Well, that's that. I wouldn't have believed it if not for the link. I wonder, then, what I did that stupid dinosaur project for. And what's up with all the Neo-lithic, Neantherdal stuff in science Catholic school?

        So, Were Dinosaurs on the Ark?

        In Genesis 6:19–20, the Bible says that two of every sort of land vertebrate (seven of the “clean” animals) were brought by God to the Ark. Therefore, dinosaurs (land vertebrates) were represented on the Ark.


        How Did Those Huge Dinosaurs Fit on the Ark?

        Good one...

        Although there are about 668 names of dinosaurs, there are perhaps only 55 different “kinds” of dinosaurs. Furthermore, not all dinosaurs were huge like the brachiosaurus, and even those dinosaurs on the Ark were probably “teenagers” or young adults.
        LMAO...I'm sorry. Um, well, I'm satisfied because I was going by the 600+ "names." Since it was only about 50 teenagers, I guess that's certainly plausible. 
        Should I bother asking how these Hebrew scholars knew that the dinosaurs were teenagers?

        Creationist researcher John Woodmorappe (Creationist researcher?? I love that. What the hell are they researching? Have they collected any evidence? Have they found dinosaur bones next to a giant arc somewhere? 

        Actually, creationism is a great field to get into. It's a very distinguished profession. You are revered within the church. You could author books, give keynote speeches, and there's minimal work; you set your own hours. I mean, it's not like you're doing research. There's nothing to learn! Once you get the story down, it's a cake walk. All I'm saying is never heard of a struggling creationist. 

        Ok, so the "creationist...has calculated that Noah had on board with him representatives from about 8,000 animal genera (including some now-extinct animals), or around 16,000 individual animals. 

        Do you hear this? He has "calculated that...had 16,000 sheep and...." Holy Shit! Those bastard guidance counselors at Cardinal Spellman never told me about being a fucking CREATIONIST!! Thank you, Sister. It's not like you don't know a slacker job when you see it.

        Come to think of it,  Father Milazzo, my old pastor, had an Audi and a Cadillac, lived rent-free in a privately gated community, never had any problems with the cops. He DID have to work Sundays, but you could get out of there by kickoff if the asshole parishioners don't sit around and B.S. about their raffle or bitch about the sound of the organ.

        This was before the pedophile thing. Still, they deflected that one pretty well. If anything they are hesitant to bring their kids around. How's that a problem, again? "Yes, I think we should cancel the bullshit Altar Boy trip, in lieu.."  It's not a bad gig at all! 

        I'm so sorry. Back to the creationist.....

        When you realize that horses, zebras, and donkeys are probably descended from the horse-like “kind,” Noah did not have to carry two sets of each such animal. Also, dogs, wolves, and coyotes are probably from a single canine “kind,” so hundreds of different dogs were not needed.

        Listen to me, kid, and listen good. Your passion in life is to be a creationist. Son, your major is religion. Bank it.  

        According to Genesis 6:15, the Ark measured 300 x 50 x 30 cubits, which is about 460 x 75 x 44 feet, with a volume of about 1.52 million cubic feet. Researchers have shown that this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard railroad stock cars (US), each of which can hold 240 sheep. 

        By the way, only 11% of all land animals are larger than a sheep.Without getting into all the math, the 16,000-plus animals would have occupied much less than half the space in the Ark (even allowing them some moving-around space). Oh, well that's nice to know it was a comfortable ride. Thank you for that extended research.

        Amazing that Noah built an arc that size, at the age of 700, and oh, don't worry, I wouldn't expect you to "get into all the math." You haven't been getting into all the history or all the geology or all the archaeology or all the biology; why bother with the math?

        Boy, what a piece of work that was. Again with the "researchers." Please tell me what the f#$k they're researching. How long did it take to come up with the railroad car analogy? (U.S. stock cars that is) And am I the only one who catches the little snide comments like, "By the way, only 11% of all land animals are...?" Where did they get that from, the Creationists or the leading Hebrew scholars?

        Conclusion = Christians are amazingly gullible people? Sorry...

        The Bible is reliable in all areas, including its account of the Ark (and the worldwide catastrophic Flood). A Christian doesn’t have to have a blind faith to believe that there really was an Ark. What the Bible says about the Ark can even be measured and tested today. Really? Where?
        For answers to other objections about the biblical account of Noah’s Flood and the Ark (e.g., Where did all the water come from? How did Noah collect and then care for the animals? etc.), see the books featured below. And, again, don't look any further than these books! Was There Really a Noah’s Ark & Flood? covers these particular “problems” related to Noah’s Flood, and Noah’s Ark: A Feasibility Study covers these and more in detail.

        Most of us loved reading about dinosaurs at some time in our lives. In 1993, the movie “Jurassic Park” stimulated the public interest in dinosaurs far beyond its previous level. As a result, increasing numbers of people have thought, “Since we have found all these fossils and dinosaur bones, we know dinosaurs existed. How come they are not mentioned in the Bible?” Most of do love Jurassic Park, but not them. That's when the problem spiked a bit for them.
        Actually, dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible, and we will prove it by doing the following three things:
         Examining the Bible’s text and the related scientific facts.
         Explaining the accuracy of the Bible.
         Exploring what we are taught in school and through the media.
        So. they ARE in the bible and we never knew it. They are going to PROVE it by............reading the bible!

        The Bible’s Text

        The Bible refers to many the common animals we know today. The list includes lions, wolves, bears, sheep, cattle and dogs along with various kinds of birds, rodents, reptiles, and insects. What is interesting is that this extensive list includes three animals that we no longer recognize. These three are (in the original Hebrew language) tanniyn, b@hemowth (yes, it’s spelled correctly—at least as close as we can get in Roman characters), and livyathan.
        Although we alter the spelling of behemoth and Leviathan slightly, we still use those same words in bibles today. However, tanniyn is always translated into another word when we write it in English. Tanniyn occurs 28 times in the Bible and is normally translated “dragon.” It is also translated “serpent,” “sea monster,” “dinosaur,” “great creature,” and “reptile.” 
        The evidence so far= A word used to describe an animal seen in the bibles sometimes referred to as a dragon or dinosaur, but also could mean snake, gator, iguana or big animal.      
         **Can I also say that it's ridiculous that we would even have a debate over whether or not enormous pre-historic reptiles, who roamed the Earth 60 million years ago were present 4,000 years ago, on a giant ark built by a 700 year old man, which carried two of every animal to safety, on God's orders before He annihilated the human race.  
        The fact that the term "creationist" is mentioned with the same prestige implied as "scientist" is also laughable. Hey, it would help if maybe, we could find the ark!!
        ** On another side-note, the Abraham-ists, meaning the Jew/Christian/Islam three-headed monster also has PROOF that Moses parted the Red Sea and it crashed on top of the Egyptian soldiers. That proof?  Chariot wheels were found at the bottom of the sea! 
        That says it all. I mean, chariot wheels don't just "end up" at the bottom of the sea (near the coast, about 20 meters deep). I know you would be hard-pressed to find a truck tire in the ocean at low tide.
        But, they continue:
        Behemoth and Leviathan are relatively specific creatures, perhaps each was a single kind of animal. Tanniyn is a more general term, and it can be thought of as the original version of the word “dinosaur.” 

        The word “dinosaur” was originally coined in 1841, more than three thousand years after the Bible first referred to “Tanniyn.” To make things clearer, we constructed the following table comparing the scientific names with the Biblical names tanniyn, behemoth, and Leviathan.How we got these new names is interesting.

        In 1822, Mary Ann Mantell became the first person to discover and correctly identify a strange bone as part of a large, unknown reptile. Her husband, Dr. Gideon Mantell, later named this creature an “Iguanodon.” 

        From that time forward, these forgotten animals were given names chosen by the people who rediscovered them. Of course, the Bible, written between approximately 1450 BC and 95 AD, does not include any of these names.

        Reading the Bible carefully, you will realize that no living creature matches the descriptions of behemoth and Leviathan. However, if you grab your kid’s dinosaur book, you will notice several possible matches for each one. 
        And if you read further in your kid's books, it says that these creature lived 65 million years ago, so that doesn't work. If you really want to go by descriptions, Jesus sounds like on of those dudes you see in your kid's rap videos. 

        The most frightening part of this is the reference to your"kid's" dinosaur book. This stuff is actually meant for adults!
        Let’s examine those.     
        Behemoth has the following attributes according to Job 40:15-24

        It “eats grass like an ox.” --must be a dinosaur
        It “moves his tail like a cedar.” (In Hebrew, this literally reads, “he lets hang his tail like a cedar.”) 
        Its “bones are like beams of bronze,
        His ribs like bars of iron.” 
        “He is the first of the ways of God.” 
        “He lies under the lotus trees,
        In a covert of reeds and marsh.” 
        Some bibles and study bibles will translate the word “behemoth” as “elephant” or “hippopotamus.”  

        OK, OK...elephant makes sense. Elephants were everywhere in the region AT THAT TIME.

        Others will put a note at the edge or bottom of the page, stating that behemoth was probably an elephant or a hippopotamus. Although an elephant or hippopotamus can eat grass (or lie in a covert of reeds and marsh), neither an elephant o). r a hippopotamus has a “tail like a cedar” (that is, a tail like a large, tapered tree trunk. In your kid’s dinosaur book you will find lots of animals that have “tails like a cedar.”

        Did you get that, folks? Don't you love the smugness.

        We would expect behemoth to be a large land animal whose bones are like beams of bronze and so forth, so whatever a behemoth is, it is large. A key phrase is “He is the first of the ways of God.”  

        This phrase in the original Hebrew implied that behemoth was the biggest animal created. Although an elephant or a hippopotamus are big, AND THEY WERE THE BIGGEST THING AROUND AT THAT TIME. they are less than one-tenth the size of a Brachiosaurus, the largest (complete) dinosaur ever discovered. A Brachiosaurus could therefore easily be described as “the first of the ways of God.”  

        Comparing all this information to the description in your kid’s dinosaur book, you may come to the conclusion that “behemoth” is not a normal animal, it is a dinosaur—the brachiosaurus. We agree with that conclusion!

        Yes, but.....forget it

        And we're back.

        I do realize that most people do not believe any of that nonsense. Many Christians concede that, yes, those stories are impossible, but that are simply parables used to illustrate a higher point. The problem is some don't, and apparently they are fine with indoctrinating a new generation, so that the indisputable fact can be debated.


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        Thanks for reading that. Please add some comments, give an opinion, ask questions, disagree. I would love a healthy discussion on this, not to find a winner in this debate, but to find the truth.

        - Professor Plume

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